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#21 skh

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:35 PM

I'd be the same... just medicate for the pain and I'm good, mostly.


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#22 twistyman

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:37 PM

A few years ago I fell from quite high, say 4ft straight drop on the stairs and landed on my spine... I had a feeling then that it would come back to haunt me one day. I don't like doctors, even now I'm self medicating. I figured out my problem from google.

 

I'm on Codeine and Paracetamol, a left over prescription of my gf's. 

mine was ok for years after the initial boo boo....

then started acting up 10+ years later...

 

you should stop the Paracetamol..and if you drink more so...
I had to change from cod and tyl when I stated chemo...bad mojo Dr said..lol

 

acetaminophen is a liver destroyer even at listed dosages, and with 1 drink you can shut down liver..

over here they have been forced to put huge warning on cap..not fine print shit.

 

don't want to show up at emmy awards all yellow....

google tylenol and liver failure.


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#23 skh

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:48 PM

I'm not really up on all the drugs and what they contain. I am having a little drink with my GF tonight, not a lot, just a couple of bottles of Champagne. It's all I drink these days and there was a half price special offer at the supermarket. I drink like once every 2 weeks, sometimes even longer apart than that.

 

I'll have to google all those things tomorrow when  I sober up... if it's not too late, lol.


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#24 twistyman

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:54 PM

http://www.psmag.com...probably-66879/

alcohol use activates enzymes that transform acetaminophen (Tylenol and others) into chemicals that can cause liver damage, even when the medicine is used in standard amounts.

A person need not be a chronic drinker to suffer damage. Taking acetaminophen after a weekend drinking binge can prove fatal. The amount of alcohol and acetaminophen necessary for this toxic reaction varies from person to person, and thus, unfortunately, it is not possible to give guidelines for safe alcohol ingestion with acetaminophen use. It is best to avoid this combination of drugs if at all possible!

By itself, taken in doses greater than 150 mg/kg/24 hr (>10 g, which is 20 caplets of Extra-Strength Tylenol), acetaminophen is a well-recognized cause of acute liver failure. Due to the effect of alcohol upon acetaminophen metabolism, doses generally considered to be nontoxic (<10 g/24 hr, or fewer than 20 caplets of Extra-Strength Tylenol per day) have caused acute toxic effects in the liver when moderate to large amounts of alcohol are also ingested. Severe hepatotoxicity may occur after ingestion of as little as 4 g (8 extra-strength caplets) in 24 hours when combined with alcohol.

Alternative painkillers are not entirely free of danger either. Ibuprofen, such as Advil and Motrin, can cause stomach bleeding if taken in large doses or with 3 or more alcoholic drinks per day. It should also not be taken in combination with acetaminophen unless under a doctor's direction.

Sources:
http://www.tylenol.com


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#25 skh

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 07:09 AM

I just googled "acetaminophen" and I'm not sure I've been taking that unless it's in Ibuprofen or paracetamol contains it. Things that are legal for use in the US may not be so here and vice-versa. I'm taking something called co-dydramol (Dihydrocodeine Tartrate and Paracetamol) which is basically 10mg of Codeine and 500mg of Paracetamol per tablet. It does warn about addiction and here these tablets are prescription only. If I run out I may have to go to the doctor as Ibuprofen had stopped working so good.


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#26 mactheman

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:17 AM

hi skh i think acetaminophen is what they call paracetamol over in the USA and Canada...,,peace,mac.


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#27 twistyman

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 01:46 PM

Paracetamol toxicity is caused by excessive use or overdose of the analgesic drug paracetamol (called acetaminophen in North America). Mainly causing liver injury, paracetamol toxicity is one of the most common causes of poisoning worldwide. In the United States and the United Kingdom it is the most common cause of acute liver failure

 

 

http://en.wikipedia....etamol_toxicity


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#28 skh

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 04:33 PM

Well I'm still alive. I had no idea about the harmful effects of paracetamol. I rarely take pain killers, even with my bad back I suffered for a whole week before giving in. I do like these Codeine ones now that I've got used to them though, lol. Luckily they're prescription only, so I can't get any more. Hopefully my back is better soon.


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#29 twistyman

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 05:05 PM

Well I'm still alive. I had no idea about the harmful effects of paracetamol. I rarely take pain killers, even with my bad back I suffered for a whole week before giving in. I do like these Codeine ones now that I've got used to them though, lol. Luckily they're prescription only, so I can't get any more. Hopefully my back is better soon.

its a sad state of affairs when something like heroin is safer than the poisons big pharma pump out.....

 

I've used codeine for years, no problem stopping and if you research its has very low addiction potential....the bitch with it is constipation..

 

 

I hope so too SKH..like bad tooth infection..

you have no idea the pain till you have it..


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#30 Sixstring

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 07:29 PM

I favor oxytocin over oxycodone personally because it doesnt make you as sleepy.but the last time I hurt my back bad enough to go see a doc and get a script it was tough for me when they ran out.i really like script drugs so I try to stay away from doctors lol.
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#31 twistyman

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:26 PM

oxycodone can have the tylenol base ..
 

I'm staying far far away from oxy if possible....

 

I used H in 80's and never had issue...just stuck to the 2 days on, 1 day off routine.


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#32 twistyman

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:27 PM

your right on the constipation twisty. i still got a bottle of 50 norco, lol.   i'll prolly give it to a bro that has back pain.

 

funny though my cracked ribs hurt for two years and no trouble out of the broken back.  knock knock

 

 

damn dude....ribs and back.... :o


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#33 twistyman

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:38 PM

that's when I learned to properly medicate. The pharma crap had me all stopped up and didn't really help with the pain anyway. Now i just need to get off the antidepressants and anxiety scripts. I'm still looking for that strain. It's out there.

I used an SSRI but stopped when I did the chemo...I dropped a lot of Rx meds...
 I use xanax for sleeping ..
I find that sleeping pills leave me groggy in AM..  where the xanax takes that comp screen busy mind shit that stops you from sleeping..

 

and fuck that Lunesta shit...wake up naked at the mall........


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#34 MJ-Joe

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:18 PM

- Oh, this is where we get to bitch about our back pain and self-medication issues? lol. I looked in because I had been thinking Spinal decompression would be a good way for me too. Always had back problems, they run in my family on both sides. I'm a little thick but I'm not very out of shape and that's not why my back hurts. I was diagnosed with hypokyphosis and scoliosis when I was young. It mostly hurts all the time and I've tried everything to try and take away the pain. Chiropractors are ok, but I have to go in nearly every day to make any progress and I can't afford that. I used a spinal decompression machine once, and it was weird because it was my first time hanging upside down like a bat, but afterwards I did feel a little better. And what we have now is way better than what they used to have. I guess my Great Grandpa used to have this head-strap thing that held his head in place, braced against either side of a door jamb, and he would strap himself in and I guess kick a chair out from underneath him and just hang there by his head. God that sounds so terrible for the neck. At least modern medicine doesn't have us doing circus tricks.... oh wait, I'm talking about an exercise where I hang upside down by my ankles like I'm a fucking trapeze artist, so nevermind!

 

- And yeah, that Paracetamol/Acetomenophen poisoning thing..... It seems like nothing because it is OTC in many formulations, but I knew a guy who was taking like 30 vicodins a day, and he overdosed on the Acetomenophen in them, acute liver poisoning, not on the hydrocodone, the actual opioid. I doubt you take anywhere near that much. Still, be careful. It sucks to just be hurt, but I don't really go to the doctor ever either, except to re-up my xanax.... which is staring at me right now.

 

- Shit, Twisty, 2 days on, one day off? And that worked??? Shit If I do 2 days on, I'm just...... on..... lol. There is no day off after that. Praise Jebus for Suboxone, but curse him for it at the same time! My brain has even more of an affinity for opioids than I do, so I can get strung out on practically anything after taking it for no time at all. Even Wellbutrin, they put me on that shit because I was depressed (this was back when we still had to smoke BC import grade lol). It only made me more depressed, and then when I went off it I had fucking withdrawls! Actually physical ones, it felt like I was cleaning up all over again, you know the feeling where its like your brain is being dragged across a gravel road underlaid with thick velvet? Well, I had that for like 3 days when I quit Wellbutrin, I said "never again" to that kind of medicine. Weed all the time, and pain meds only when I have no other choice. Fuck back pain. Where's a Teeter Hang-Ups when you need one?!


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#35 twistyman

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:41 PM

I dunno joe...with me H just never took...

I didn't do it long as I did like it...

 

with crack it was 1st puff I knew I was fucked...lol


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#36 mactheman

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 09:58 AM

Hi mj joe i used to take oxycontin and codeine/paracetamol, for my neck and back pain,,,cannabis helped more for relaxing the muscles in my neck/back ,,i loved the oxy's trouble is i was on them for 12 years ,the doc just kept me on them ,,,i asked about coming off them the fuk wit of a man said he'd put me on Methadone an heroin substitute,i said no to that and cut down my self,,i wasnt on a big dose of oxys just two 40mg tabs a day i finally got off them in around a year,,,,,,but i still keep some 20mgs oxys around just for when the pain does get to much for me,,,,,,fuck ive been rambling on sorry about that  ,just saying some times you have to take opioids ,,,just be careful and dont over do them,,,its hard but can be done,,,peace,mac,


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#37 twistyman

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 03:01 PM

Hi mj joe i used to take oxycontin and codeine/paracetamol, for my neck and back pain,,,cannabis helped more for relaxing the muscles in my neck/back ,,i loved the oxy's trouble is i was on them for 12 years ,the doc just kept me on them ,,,i asked about coming off them the fuk wit of a man said he'd put me on Methadone an heroin substitute,i said no to that and cut down my self,,i wasnt on a big dose of oxys just two 40mg tabs a day i finally got off them in around a year,,,,,,but i still keep some 20mgs oxys around just for when the pain does get to much for me,,,,,,fuck ive been rambling on sorry about that  ,just saying some times you have to take opioids ,,,just be careful and dont over do them,,,its hard but can be done,,,peace,mac,

I told Dr to give me codeine and not hydromorphone (dilaudid) which they'd written on Rx..

 

codeine is an almost none addicting opiate...

 

I've been using them 80% of last year, and if I go jamming, or know I may drink that day I don't take any and it doesn't effect me at all ......

if they didn't work so well on back I'd stop them..


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#38 mactheman

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 03:25 PM

I told Dr to give me codeine and not hydromorphone (dilaudid) which they'd written on Rx..

 

codeine is an almost none addicting opiate...

 

I've been using them 80% of last year, and if I go jamming, or know I may drink that day I don't take any and it doesn't effect me at all ......

if they didn't work so well on back I'd stop them..

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i can get codeine off the doc but he wont give it unless its got its got paracetamol mixed with it,,,,,,,,but they do work fine  ,but dont like whats in them paracetamol,,,yet hes quite happy to keep giving oxy's out,,,,,,,,,,,,though when i stop talkin the codeine/paracetamol and ive taken them for a few weeks i get very mild wiyhdrawal symptoms,yawning ,and shivery ,,,etc,,,,,,,peace,mac.


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#39 twistyman

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 03:34 PM

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i can get codeine off the doc but he wont give it unless its got its got paracetamol mixed with it,,,,,,,,but they do work fine  ,but dont like whats in them paracetamol,,,yet hes quite happy to keep giving oxy's out,,,,,,,,,,,,though when i stop talkin the codeine/paracetamol and ive taken them for a few weeks i get very mild wiyhdrawal symptoms,yawning ,and shivery ,,,etc,,,,,,,peace,mac.

tell the Dr you feel nausea whenyou take paracet/tylenol..

 

me it was on chemo paper..NO tylenol...as it can mess up white cell counts..

 

when I went to RX he said sure..I can give you codeine alone..either pill or syrup....
I always felt bad on the empracet (tyl and codeine), but as soon as I got the codeine with tyl removed all that blah feeling stopped....
I tried a basic tylenol later and I got that nausea again..

 

seems liver don't like it...

just tell you DR look dickweed, you're prescribed codeine..now just rewrite it for straight codeine..

 

bet he thinks you're going to grind up and inject it...

 


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#40 MJ-Joe

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 03:05 AM

Hi mj joe i used to take oxycontin and codeine/paracetamol, for my neck and back pain,,,cannabis helped more for relaxing the muscles in my neck/back ,,i loved the oxy's trouble is i was on them for 12 years ,the doc just kept me on them ,,,i asked about coming off them the fuk wit of a man said he'd put me on Methadone an heroin substitute,i said no to that and cut down my self,,i wasnt on a big dose of oxys just two 40mg tabs a day i finally got off them in around a year,,,,,,but i still keep some 20mgs oxys around just for when the pain does get to much for me,,,,,,fuck ive been rambling on sorry about that  ,just saying some times you have to take opioids ,,,just be careful and dont over do them,,,its hard but can be done,,,peace,mac,

- They like to just keep you on them. Oxy's, that is. Perdue reps give out free resort vacations and all kinds of other goodies to doctors who move a lot of their product. I'd be surprised if they didn't try to up the dose occasionally for any concievable reason that might have come up too. That was my experience with it. Oh, did you stub your toe? Let's move you from 20s to 40s..... I guess that's an exaggeration but you get the idea.

 

- And don't worry about rambling on this topic, I could go on all day too. Besides weed, opioids are the only thing that can provide relief, but it's at a price. My conditions are inherited so there's not much to be done about "fixing" them and it can get pretty painful. At the same time, nothing I have ever taken has ever really been enough, so I would end up still in pain but unable to take any more medecine because you can't run out early or they kick you out of the clinic. Eventually I told them it was just too difficult and left. Now I'm not on any prescription meds and I'm in more pain than I used to be in. At least the weed takes the edge off without any side effects. With pain pills, it's the side effects that kill me. I just get addicted really fast.

 

- Although, as a sidenote, I heard that they had discovered part of the true mechanism causing addiction and withdrawl, and it's actually a chemical you make yourself when your brain gets cut off from its "supply", not simply a lack of chemicals to fill the increased receptor number caused by tolerance. If this self-produced chemical can be inhibited, they may be able to stop addiction altogether, or at least mediate it's effects tremendously. The research is real early stage as last I heard, but it could lead to pain pills that negate their own negative side effects.

 

I told Dr to give me codeine and not hydromorphone (dilaudid) which they'd written on Rx..

 

codeine is an almost none addicting opiate...

 

I've been using them 80% of last year, and if I go jamming, or know I may drink that day I don't take any and it doesn't effect me at all ......

if they didn't work so well on back I'd stop them..

- You're right, codeine is the weakest opioid, and thus the hardest to get addicted to. It is also a little easier to get off of once you are addicted, but I have found that it's not THAT much of a difference for me. It's good that you found something that is actually working for you. I'm kinda jealous, as codeine doesn't do much for pain on me.

 

- It will take the edge off, but if I'm going to have to become addicted to something to kill my pain, I want it to at least be strong enough to be worth it. Dilaudid, on the other hand, is very strong per mg, but an interesting aspect is it's short half-life, meaning that it is slightly easier to come off of than most opiates, in that the withdrawls will not last as long. To some they are slightly more intense but briefer. But when I was prescribed it and then went off, I found it was not any more difficult to go through, but definitely took less time by a couple days at least. If I ever have to go back on pain meds, I will be shooting for Dilaudid as it has worked better than anything for me, when it gets bad enough to be worth dealing with the side effects anyway.

 

---------------

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i can get codeine off the doc but he wont give it unless its got its got paracetamol mixed with it,,,,,,,,but they do work fine  ,but dont like whats in them paracetamol,,,yet hes quite happy to keep giving oxy's out,,,,,,,,,,,,though when i stop talkin the codeine/paracetamol and ive taken them for a few weeks i get very mild wiyhdrawal symptoms,yawning ,and shivery ,,,etc,,,,,,,peace,mac.

- Mac, to deal with mild withdrawl symptoms like the ones you described, have you tried taking Benadryl (diphenhydramine)? It will help to dry you up, possibly stop any runny nose/water eyes. Also, even if your gastrointestinal tract is unaffected, Immodium (loperamide) is actually an opiate and was discovered by doctors trying to synthesize new pain medicine. It is an opioid but it does not bind with the mu-receptor, which is why it only blocks people up like an opiate but does not get anyone high. There are a couple other opioid receptors besides the mu-receptor which do not provide pain relief but can provide relief from withdrawls if filled. So if it was bad enough to warrant giving yourself a day of temporary constipation, that does work. But if it's not that bad, just try Benadryl. Also, there is an herb called Kratom which has been used in Asia for thousands of years to mediate withdrawl symptoms. I have never tried it, but I've heard goof things.

 

- That kinda shows that he's in Perdue's pocket, just like my doc was. He'll give you all the patented Perdue meds you need, but anything that can be generic and insurance will cover another brand, you only get a small dose codeine pill with Tylenol in it. That way you won't ever have to reduce the dose of they oxy and Perdue and your doc have a customer for life. Real telling, I'd say. These guys are such fucking crooks.

 

- And I'm not saying anything about your pain. I'm sure it's legitimate and exactly as bad as you say it is. I feel bad for anyone suffering from chronic (or even acute) pain, as I know how bad it can get, and that is a whole lot worse than mine, which is saying something. I am just bemoaning the corrupt state of the industry that people with chronic pain issues must deal with. I mean, as if the pain weren't already enough on it's own, you have to jump through hoops just to get access to a legal drug dealer who doesn't give a shit about you, just your money and the probability you will OD and your family will sue them.

 

- I wonder what your doc gets from Perdue to keep shoveling their product onto anyone with a pain issue and an MRI? Not saying you don't need it, I'm SURE you do, as do many of us here... But Perdue are just glorified pushamen and people in pain are the victims.

 

- Oh, and don't forget the generation of heroin addicts they've helped to create. For years they flood the country with cheap, high dose narcotics that are easy to abuse, then change the formula to prevent abuse. Where do you think those addicts are going to turn? The heroin addiction and OD rates are skyrocketing here, and the shit is just getting better and cheaper while pharms just get rarer and more expensive. Their pill boom is drying up because the govt. finally got a little wise to it, but now there's just a huge hole and heroin is all there is to fill it. I'm not taking responsibility away from the addicts, it's on them to get cleaned up. It's hard, but most of us have had to do it at some point or another, maybe not from heroin but we all have our vices. Nevertheless, any business model that has an end result of increasing the levels of heroin addiction is a pretty shitty model, especially for a healthcare company. Fuckers.


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