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how to make your own MOAB/Shooting Powder for pennies on the dollar


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#1 str8dank

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 12:58 PM

straight plagiarized this. i stole it from another site but i found it so informative i thought the Skool deserved this info! a few other recopies came up throughout the thread but this was the most detailed and started the convo. this is for MOAB (Moather Of All Blooms) which is like the same thing as House and Garden Shooting powder (so i've been told).

This is mainly geared to big time growers or a few buddies going in on supplys to maximize funds in tough economic times

I recently went to a fertilizer manufaturing supply company and took along my trusty bottle of M**B which is a granular bloom booster. This is what they told me..........

I don't want to be sued so M**B will have to suffice I am sure some will guess and be so kind as to fill the other readers in

M**B consists of 3 ingredients which are listed on the package from largest proportion to least

1st is simply Mono-potassium phosphate which is known as MKP 0-52-34
it sells through fertilizer companies locally for 48.50 for 25kgs This 25kg bag is enough to make 27.53 1kg size containers of M**B

2nd is Mono-Ammonium Phosphate, which is known as MAP and is 11-52-34
This also sells through fertilizer companies locally for 110.00 for 25kgs
hopefully you can find it in a smaller quantity than I could as it is enough to make 275 1kg containers of M**B

lastly there is thiamine hydrochloride. online chemical lab supply places carry this. (Google is your friend)
I got this at 49.00 per 100 grams which is enough to make 100 1kg containers or M**B


for 1kg of M**B you use 905.19 grams of MKP
90.81 grams of MAP
1.0 grams of thiamine hydrochloride

this will give you 1-52-34 with a .01% thiamine hydrochloride




My initial outlay of 207.00 has given me enough bulk ingredients to make 27kgs of M**B

Even better though....the fella at the fertilizer supply company said that the addition of the MAP only supplies 1% nitrogen to the mix. he suggested that if you run hydro...simply you can run your nutes at 90% bloom and 10% veg which would completely eliminate the need for the MAP altogether.

This would bring your total cost down to less than 100 dollars total for enough raw ferts to make 25 kgs of this
Certainly seems better than the internet price of anywhere from 60-90 bucks for 1kg of the original product


I am certainly not knocking anyone going out and purchasing the original product from a retailer as it is a great product which is very concentrated and lasts quite a while. But for guys with huge grows....bulk raw materials sure helps out.


hope someone found this usefull

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#2 str8dank

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 01:07 PM

http://www.cdfa.ca.g...FirmOptions.asp

a database that lists what's in your fav products!
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#3 MrsMcGreggor

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 02:01 PM

wow great link an artical.
{they just changed da laws out round here where you have to be licenced to buy from fertilizer folks}
cuz of dem CRAZY meth makers.
they don't even leave the flatbeds with the chemicals out in the fields any more cuz it got so bad.
folks would go out an drain em an slop crap all over the place.
BUT ts pretty cool how they do it. there are big vats an they mix on sight according to the needs at the time.
they also are planting color coated seeds, that have growth inhancers an I think fungusides but i could be incorrect on that.
It really is a art form all its own going on out there now days. da moo cow man is REALLY up on all this stuff.
he is gonna get us some of the experimental double sweet by colored corn for the garden this summer.
an is looking for some new cutting edge green bean seeds but not to sure on that yet BUT the corn is a Go.
I enjoyed this artical cuz we were just discussing this mix your own fertlizer yesterday morning.
thanks for sharring.

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 05:12 PM

i've been telling you guys this shit for ages.

there are a lot of products out there that aren't worth the money you pay for them. the canna market is full of suckers.

#5 str8dank

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 06:30 PM

i've been telling you guys this shit for ages.

there are a lot of products out there that aren't worth the money you pay for them. the canna market is full of suckers.


so hook us up with some more recipies brotha!

a quick overview of hammerhead PK 9/18.... 1L recipe

Soluble Potash 0-0-60 91.8 grams
Mono-potassium phosphate MKP 0-52-34 78.2 grams
distilled H2O 0-0-0 830 grams

This will give you 0-9-18 within a percentage point

Now the big disclaimer hahaha these amounts are with 100% disolving in the water base. As Potash is a natural mined element, you may have varying degrees of solubility.
I would add the Potash first to see how it disolves, then the MKP
I do know that Hammerhead always seems to have some sediment in the bottom of the bottle and they say to shake well before using, so it must not totally disolve.

depending on the quantities of the materials you can get.....you could make this up for as little as fifty cents a litre

I'm gonna play around with some base nutes too. Sadly though due to radical nuts....it can be very hard to get ammonium nitrate which is usually used. I remember not long ago (10 years) going to my local farm and feed supply and buying 100lb bags of this stuff for next to nothing. Damn radicals!



Hydroponic "6 pack" nutrients


all around base nutes. During flower though I would add the bloom additives to increase the P and K, and drop the base nutes down accordingly.

#1 calcium nitrate
#2 potassium sulphate
#3 potassium nitrate......which is.....salt peter
#4 Mono Potassium Phosphate......which is.....MKP
#5 magnesium sulphate......which is.....epsom salts
#6 trace elements & nitric acid

formula is as follows (you may have to increase or decrease the amount of water to account for your strains tolerance to nute levels)


#1 765g/1000L or 30.6grams /10 gallons
#2 530g/1000L or 21.2grams/10 gallons
#3 223g/1000L or 8.92grams/10 gallons
#4 220g/1000L or 8.8grams /10 gallons
#5 456g/1000L or 18.24grams/10 gallons


#6 Trace elements .29gr/1000L or .01grams/10 gallons
nitric acid 50 ml/1000L or 2ml /10 gallons

This is all based on 4L of water to a gallon


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#6 ...

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 07:34 PM

soon. very soon.
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#7 ugmjfarmer

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 07:28 PM

Its not always neccessarily the plant foods in these boosters, but the non-plant food materials that are included, such as aminos that make the difference. For example, those are the same three ingredients in Advanced Nutrients Big Bud, but where are you going to source this list:

CITRIC ACID, L-ALANINE, L-ARGININE, L-ASPARTIC ACID, L-CYSTEINE, L-GLUTAMIC ACID, L-GLYCINE, L-HISTIDINE, L-ISOLEUCINE, L-LEUCINE, L-LYSINE, L-METHIONINE, L-PHENYLALANINE, L-PROLINE, L-SERINE, L-THREONINE, L-TRYTOPHAN, L-TYROSINE, L-VALINE, MAGNESIUM SULPHATE/SULFATE, POTASSIUM PHOSPHATE, POTASSIUM SULPHATE/SULFATE

I think these ingredients are the ones making the difference in these mixes and henceforth what makes them so expensive. They are primarily amino based, not nutrent based.

#8 ...

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:12 PM

Its not always neccessarily the plant foods in these boosters, but the non-plant food materials that are included, such as aminos that make the difference. For example, those are the same three ingredients in Advanced Nutrients Big Bud, but where are you going to source this list:

CITRIC ACID, L-ALANINE, L-ARGININE, L-ASPARTIC ACID, L-CYSTEINE, L-GLUTAMIC ACID, L-GLYCINE, L-HISTIDINE, L-ISOLEUCINE, L-LEUCINE, L-LYSINE, L-METHIONINE, L-PHENYLALANINE, L-PROLINE, L-SERINE, L-THREONINE, L-TRYTOPHAN, L-TYROSINE, L-VALINE, MAGNESIUM SULPHATE/SULFATE, POTASSIUM PHOSPHATE, POTASSIUM SULPHATE/SULFATE

I think these ingredients are the ones making the difference in these mixes and henceforth what makes them so expensive. They are primarily amino based, not nutrent based.


yeah in those.... and there is still no exact proof that amino's do help to increase yields when supplemented. also it is only specific amino's that do specific things, a lot of tem are to do with terpene production which may or may not be related to potency.

You've got a lot to offer this site, glad you're here.

#9 ugmjfarmer

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:25 PM

yeah in those.... and there is still no exact proof that amino's do help to increase yields when supplemented. also it is only specific amino's that do specific things, a lot of tem are to do with terpene production which may or may not be related to potency.

You've got a lot to offer this site, glad you're here.


Glad to be here. Here is something you might find of interest, i was able to find a pre-mixed plant amino package that almost closely if not entirely matches Big BuD powder's pack.

http://www.super-grow.biz/Amino.jsp

However it has been discontinued.
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#10 ...

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 08:19 AM

Glad to be here. Here is something you might find of interest, i was able to find a pre-mixed plant amino package that almost closely if not entirely matches Big BuD powder's pack.

http://www.super-grow.biz/Amino.jsp

However it has been discontinued.


interesting that they claim it is best used in veg'... yet AN use the same (or similar) mix for flower.

I do love AN. they were hot on all of this years ago... the mycorrhizae, bacteria, sugar supplements etc etc. they're also the best quality imo. Most of my products come from AN.

I use AN 3 part, Mother Earth Tea, seaweed extract, myco, carboload, H2 and F1...

some other products that are not AN.

My complaint isn't really with AN, i believe AN try their best... yes they may overcharge quite a bit, but they have dropped their prices recently. Piranha for example is cheaper to buy now than it was a few months ago. quite a lot cheaper. i believe that is to compete with Great White. My complaint is with other companies, like makers of pk 13/14. I do not see the point in a 13/14 supposed bloom booster. The bloom in my 3 part contains... 0, 5, 4. I might as well just use more of that. at least AN try with their booster and actually put aminos in it. I'm pretty sure they're the only company that uses amino's in their bloom booster product. any booster containing just P/K is pretty much a useless product imo.

#11 str8dank

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 01:23 PM

interesting that they claim it is best used in veg'... yet AN use the same (or similar) mix for flower.

I do love AN. they were hot on all of this years ago... the mycorrhizae, bacteria, sugar supplements etc etc. they're also the best quality imo. Most of my products come from AN.

I use AN 3 part, Mother Earth Tea, seaweed extract, myco, carboload, H2 and F1...

some other products that are not AN.

My complaint isn't really with AN, i believe AN try their best... yes they may overcharge quite a bit, but they have dropped their prices recently. Piranha for example is cheaper to buy now than it was a few months ago. quite a lot cheaper. i believe that is to compete with Great White. My complaint is with other companies, like makers of pk 13/14. I do not see the point in a 13/14 supposed bloom booster. The bloom in my 3 part contains... 0, 5, 4. I might as well just use more of that. at least AN try with their booster and actually put aminos in it. I'm pretty sure they're the only company that uses amino's in their bloom booster product. any booster containing just P/K is pretty much a useless product imo.


have you ran House and Garden before? do you think AN is better then them? deciding if i will try AN or run House and Garden again next rip

#12 TetraHyC

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 03:08 PM

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#13 ...

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 03:08 PM

if you're in Coco then either one is great. I'd use AN for hydro though, purely because I have no experience of H&G in hydro. I did use the H&G coco nutes in hydro a few times and never noticed any difference. i think the coco H&G just has more calcium in it... only difference i think.

all you really want is to buy from a quality company... the bottle could contain all the nutrients in the world, but if they skimp on the processing to save costs this will have an effect on the grow. quite a bad effect in some cases.

#14 str8dank

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 04:48 PM

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tet you keep posting up documens that look simular to this (out of a old book or pamphlets in B&W) how many useful things you holding onto over there like this? how bout a dump of them! that would be awesome!!!!!


EDIT

http://www.foothillh...m/brochures.php

nice dataase of articles from the ppl who made the 1 tet just posted

Edited by str8dank, 27 May 2010 - 06:59 PM.


#15 ugmjfarmer

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 04:57 PM

I am not having good experiences with advanced's new additives. Kushie Kush shoots your PH all over the place, but the same nutrient mix with overdrive is fine. My overdrive bottle has lasted a year, but I hear they are discontinuing it. Bud Candy used to be thicker but is now watered down and very runny with little smell.. almost like sugar water not molasses anymore.

They are advertising the ph perfect crap, and only give you a nutrient calculator for it, but their product line has been changed so many times that all the advanced distributors dont have it yet for the base nutes, or have substantial stocks of old base nutes they are selling. The new stuff just BLOWS compared to the old stuff. You wont catch me paying for them anymore. Aquashield beat Voodoo Juice in cloning, plain and simple. Aquashield has the same bacteria as voodoo. There are other one bottle solution replacements for Pirahna/Tarantula. SensiZyme is something i hear BAD things about unilaterally. There are far too many negatives for advanced nutrients stuff.

Have you every tried Nitrozime and Fossil Fuel? Dump your Grammas Egny stuff and try those once. Nitrozime is 0-4-4. Fossil Fuel is the darkest thickest humic i've seen and it 100% mixes without residue. Roots Organism XL seems to have a good list of the same stuff for cheaper. Advanced lost me as a customer this run, the performance was lackluster compared to running just Pure Blend Pro, Liquid Karma, Sweet and Aquashield. Just for the record, heres the big list of nutrients i wasted.

4L Sensi BLoom Old Formula
1L Sensi Bloom A+B Old Formula
Voodoo Juice, 500ml New Formula
Pirahna 50g Old Formula
Bud Candy 1L New Formula
B52 1L Old Formula
Kushie Kush 1L NEW, pH swings, unstable..
Overdrive (old stuff = works better, was not a waste, only used 260ml total)


B52 bottle has percipitate in it.. my first time using it..

Advanced bottles also lack seals on them so if you shake them your SOL and the nutes are spilling.

I can go on and on about the negatives of advances, i'll just never use them again (at least for a while). I would if they would continue Big Bud Powder, but its gone. Now that I cant get that Amino pack anymore, i'm searching for options to replace that amino base.. I dont think the monopotasiumphosphate does much, because I can just add more Bloom from a 3-part to do the same thing.

Edited by ugmjfarmer, 28 May 2010 - 05:03 PM.


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Posted 28 May 2010 - 06:34 PM

for me picking up AN is easier, because i know them and trust them. I don't know too much about their new stuff. i agree on the piranha and tarantula being picked up much more cheaply. especially as they are merely powdered. it is much more expensive to process a liquid mix, yet AN charge the price of a liquid formula, the liquid formulas are usually much more concentrated.

I love the AN 3 part and buy it by the gallon usually. carboload is just easy to pick up and there isn't much of a range in my local hydro store. i suppose i should buy on line but i don't like giving out my bank details... in fact i probably will start buying more on line. i got a great line on some cheap myco' which i'll be buying as soon as my piranha runs out...

I've been using this as my main bacteria product alongside the piranha:

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i'll check out alternative humic... the fossil fuel sounds good... is that available in UK though? i seriously couldn't see myself ever moving from AN 3 part again though, i use it in a 4 part feed alongside the MET Grow. i figure the organic is needed to give all those beneficials something to do.

#17 ugmjfarmer

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 06:46 PM

Fossil Fuel is made by Hydrodynamics International. It might be available in the UK through Growth Technology but probably under a different name. Same place that makes/distributes Greenfuse and Nitrozime. There are still some supplies of Big Bud Powder I dont think it has been discontinued. I am very concerned with the PH swing and Kushy Kush seemed to be the culprit.

#18 str8dank

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 04:27 AM

IDK about AN i always thought they were just a gimmick lineup. when i first started reading about them everyone was just dogging them for being some fake MJ nute line. all i know is they are expensive as hell and i believe it is all due to their marketing and knowing the market they are dealing with people will pay insane prices because of insane profits.

It reminds me of Oxy pills in the streets, $40 a pill. of course no one wants to pay that to take a single pill but the heroin dealers will pay it in a heartbeat because each pill equates to $200 in profit when used as a cut because it's just synthetic heroin so they get to stretch their product even further and keep the potency in place. AN is banking on the same principle. so far with H&G i've liked it and i like it better then the Lucas Formula i ran last time that's for sure. i went from one extreme to the other! from using just 2 parts an entire grow against manufactures recommendations just micro and bloom clone to harvest and now i'm using one of the most expensive and involved systems and so far i think it may be worth the headache but only time will tell.

i really want to change my lineup of nutes for my next run but I'm so impatient i feel like i'll never stick to the same thing long enough to really learn it.

#19 ...

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 08:01 AM

AN base nutes are not that expensive. Their supplements get a little pricey, but i think their bases are reasonable.

GH are the same price for the bases and they actually charge more for some of the supplements... humic acid for example.

#20 str8dank

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 06:17 PM

AN base nutes are not that expensive. Their supplements get a little pricey, but i think their bases are reasonable.

GH are the same price for the bases and they actually charge more for some of the supplements... humic acid for example.


so buying the full lineup of AN as recommended is as cheap or cheaper then the full GH Flora lineup as recommended on their scheudles?


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